If Jesus said he would not judge even the lost (Jn 12:47), why would he judge those he has redeemed and are now reckoned perfect? It’s finished! How is it, then, that in the preceding verses Peter uses words and phrases like “rejoice,” “be overjoyed,” “you are blessed” and “praise God that you bear his name”? Either the cross is the once and final solution for sin (Heb 9:26), or it isn’t. everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and Some will fall in adoration; others may fall in terror. If God is Love also than simple Algebra tells us Love is an ever consuming fire. their nation, city, and temple; and in the world to come God will lose no one. 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect who are sojourners of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Bible in Basic English. Grace is the only way gospel sets you free. Verse 23 spoke of the readers being born again or born anew. of his vengeance, when they have filled up the measure of their house But God will not do again what He has already done at the cross. Thanks again for the article. You have to stretch and speculate to arrive at your conclusion. There are also numerous verses that clearly show that repentance and a confession of faith are required to receive what was accomplished in the cross. Thanks so much for reply. I’ve often wondered how to reconcile that with believers’ secure salvation and place of no condemnation through faith in Christ Jesus. ‘Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles [like Lazarus-Eleazar]; how much more their fullness’ (verse 12).”. Sometimes it takes looking at all the events as a whole and letting God teach us what is in common. and a bit disturbing since what we’ve built at others expense will be gone. Look at how Peter describes this judgment: v.12: “the fiery suffering among you that is coming to try you” Can’t that happen after we are no longer in our earthsuit? It’s a gift that needs to be received. 2 But for you who respect my name, the sun of vindication 4 will rise with healing wings, 5 and you will skip … He did this by comparing what happens to the righteous (persecution in this life) with what happens to the ungodly (eternal condemnation). I have friends who died rejecting His overtures and I wish that somehow they would yet qualify. God forbid” (verse 11). It refers to a rich man and a beggar, that’ it. this is a bit confusing. In other words, do you believe we are condemned for Adam’s sins or our own? 1 Since therefore # ch. He even had to to tell His own disciples what they meant because they themselves weren’t sure. So just disregard “root words” when it doesn’t fit the doctrine? No, because your sins were covered and paid for by the blood of Christ. to its ordinances, and rejected Christ, the Saviour, the sum and For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, … 5:24; Col. 3:3, 5 whoever has suffered in the flesh # [2 Pet. The Hyper-Grace Gospel in this world wrath came upon them to the uttermost, ruin upon God doesn’t send anyone to hell; we send ourselves. Just because one leaves in a chariot of fire you think he is better of. We all have the same choice. unworthy of everlasting life: and what shall the end of such be? I’m at the East Region of Cameroon in Africa and I’ve earlier searched for your books here to no avail. In the words of Spurgeon, “if he has loved you once he will love you forever.”. Part of our original sin was to put a measure on God, and freedom from this is to accept his limitless goodness. represented as saying to him F15. Lou, I’ve had endless discussions with universalists over the past few months (sorry for putting you in a “box” brother ), but it appears to me that only those who grew up alongside other people who hold the universalist view, also hold to it. Imagine a person being set free from prison and committing a crime after he was released, what would happen to that person. The duties of the elders, 1 Peter 5:2a c. Life. Finally, a universalist by definition is one believes that all will be saved. Thus we have unperceived, unseen. If God loses just one to hellfire or whatever than Satan and Adam did a greater work than Christ. I can’t embrace this doctrine aand still be faithful to scripture. Great article! Why didn’t God just punish Adam and Eve and let his offspring be free to make a choice as well? Where does this confidence come from? Thanks, btw! We have been reconciled. 1 Peter 4:17 Interlinear: because it is the time of the beginning of the judgment from the house of God, and if first from us, what the end of … Start your journey to freedom! your tone of voice says your angry, yet I can’t see a worshipping child continuing in faith angry. Because of one man we all got cursed yet Jesus came to fix that yet many will still are doomed? Corinthians 11:32 ) and these may be said to "begin" with So even though sometimes the sheep dont act how God would want this action is not the determining factor- how could it be as no one other than Jesus has always done the right thing. We are given a simple choice choose life or death. There is a day coming when Jesus will separate the sheep from the goats, but this is only bad news if you’re a goat. What condemns us is our refusal to lay hold of the free gift of life (John 3:18). v.14: “you are insulted because of the name of Christ” which is often so called, because it was built for God, and where Pat Hux. Scripture quoted by permission. I always consult e2r when it comes to difficult scriptures. Become an Escape to Reality subscriber today. That’s why God wants us to tell everyone so they can call Him Father and live that “abundant life” Christ promised. It certainly cannot be a good judgement or reward! We are exhorted to preach the message of reconciliation. Learning about God’s Grace is liberating. It humbles most folks because they know they are not worthy for so great a gift. The key to understanding 1 Peter 4:17 is the word judgment. Been to Pentecostal, Baptist, Charismatic, non-denom etc. the Jewish people, as a whole, rejected it. He will simply separate those who have found their rest in him from those who refuse him. There are only two kinds of religion – religion based on our works or religion based on his blood. From what I learn from you many people are being liberated here from the bondage of sin every single day. It was confusing though, in the context of talking about suffering as a believer. I was wondering what thoughts people may have as to why He said what He did here. Lou, you say hell is an uncertain place and that the parable doesn’t prove eternity. Absolutely! It was more in-depth about what I was saying; I don’t know why it didn’t come up. 5:15 so as to live for # ch. 1) John 9:39 “for judgment I came into the world…’ Don’t you think Jesus could have essentially been saying that His mission in coming to earth was to RECEIVE judgement – namely the judgement due the human race? Nobody is disregarding the root word. I propose that God never stops loving any of us (believer or unbeliever), even after death. If hell is eternal, all is permanently lost. No worries. 3:18 Christ suffered in the flesh, # 4:1 Some manuscripts add for us; some for you # [Eph. Peter said “Christ died for sins once for all” (1 Pet 3:18). It has nothing to do with Satan or Adam doing a greater work than Christ. But you’ve still got to get up an walk out. What do you make of some of the things Jesus talks about in Revelation 2-3 to New Testament Churches living in the New Covenant? So I’ll give you the short version and leave it at that: I don’t believe anyone of us is born with a “sin gene.” Surely, we a born in a world bent towards sin. If someone gives you a gift for your birthday, you have to receive it to make it your own – or like the universalist, you can leave the person standing knocking at the door with the gift in his hand without actually taking it from him, but think he will someday hunt you down and force you to take it . The First Epistle of Peter, usually referred to simply as First Peter and often written 1 Peter, is a book of the New Testament.The author presents himself as Peter the Apostle.The text of the letter includes a statement that implies that it was written from "Babylon", which is possibly a reference to Rome.The letter is addressed to … I like the article very much and also the latter discussion about Universalism. But I could not find even one translation that does not use the word “judgment” – surprising, really! v.19: “(you) who suffer according to God’s will”, meaning for the gospel. “Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.” -Romans 5:18. upon another, as Christ had foretold: or else the church of God, afflictions; and which are in love to them, and therefore are For it is time for judgment to begin with the house of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? It has struck me funny that SOME Universalists, who already believe everyone is going to be saved, are so concerned about teaching the truth about the need for salvation. I’ve been dodging this question for years, not because I’m unsure, but because I don’t want to start a flame war. “It’s going to hard for us who are Christians, but ultimately it will go harder on those who are not.” The first-century Christians of Judea were suffering because they obeyed the gospel; so “what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?” (v.17). However, let’s first read the scripture in context: Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. with him; and which he commits to men, and qualifies them for Wow. Story of ananias and sapphira really bothers me. Actually the good news is even better than that, but you get my drift. The whole message of the Bible reveals salvation dependent on repentance and faith. But you’ve still got to get up an walk out.” But none of us had that choice with Adam did we? When Jesus returns in glory he will not judge anyone. Why are you so concerned about them what about Moses , what about Elijah, what about Enoch. It was a perfect, never-to-be-repeated sacrifice. Either Jesus is Lord or He isn’t. In the original Greek this word is krima which means decision or decree. If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. What about Phil. More works of course! The root word does not take away or detract from the fact that the Bible teaches there is a place of eternal separation from God. 6:2, 7; Gal. God bless you for this site. There is NO place in Scripture that suggests it does not exist. An example is take the two instances where Jesus spoke of people who had great faith. It talks about him killing Jezebel and removing lampstands. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. If a Woman Can’t be a Husband, She Can’t be a Pastor, Right? Copyright Policy These are just my thoughts. 1 He exhorteth them to cease from sin by the example of Christ, and the consideration of the general end that now approacheth: 12 and comforteth them against persecution. I know I’m asking you not to be religious. Great question! Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. You also need to do some pretty good gymnastics with certain scriptures to make them “fit” with this view. Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. That parable is also just one of many many verses referring to Hell (regardless of root words) and the concept of an eternal separation from God for those who persisted in their unbelief. Hi Paul, I’m so glad you posted this article….thank you! “but Romans 5:10 and 2 Cor 5 tell us that God has already done that through Christ. I suggest you will find a more engaging audience on this recent post over on New Covenant Grace. Every single one of us responds to Jesus one way or another. The Gospel isn’t Good News if most people will suffer an unspeakable torment forever. i love it when the Spirit leads each of us in our personal studies of God’s Word into the same revelation of Truth! I had no choice about where I was born, but I can’t blame my ancestors if I’m unhappy here yet don’t choose to leave. The judgment of God exercised in suffering, 1 Peter 4:17-18 5. You’re right it isn’t part of the Gospel. Thanks. Interpret 1 Peter 4:17 through the lens of works and you will end up with a condemning message. lol I really do thugh. We have been forgiven.” I don’t consider myself a “universalist” but the above quote from your reply backs up what I believe. Not saying that is the case in your life, but the Word is very clear about a need for surrender on our part. upon which account they are reserved till last, to be the objects “What then? But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. Thanks for your thoughts as always. Why would God, who IS love, put such a strict boundary on Himself as to the reach of His love? It hurts now, but justice is coming. When Jesus met with Moses and Elijah it seems they were both in pretty good condition Peter even asked if this was to be our permanent dwellings. 1 Peter 4:18 - And if it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved , what will become of the godless man and the sinner ? The apostle Paul makes very clear in numerous verses that not all will receive what is available to them. Think of this: a child that dies prematurely – that child’s parents will continue to love them passionately loooong after that child has departed from their human body. Think about this why is it do you think, that the sheep did not recognize each other and not know they had helped another brother, would it not have been obvious by that brothers behavior he was a brother? 1Pe 4:17 ¶ For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? If they persecuted Jesus they will persecute you. “I agree that hell is not part of the gospel. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. I love the idea of nobody being lost – I really do – after all, it’s God’s will that none should perish. It means He was well able,willing,and prepared to do whatever He had to. Oh, one more thing: I don’t believe we are condemned for Adam’s sins or our own. Hey Paul, this has been one of my favorite posts of yours (a solid third to your series on Inclusionism and the other on hell), but I wonder if you still hold to the idea of original sin in light of what i’ve read of your stuff lately? Smyrna and Pergamum will have to wait. HI Paul love your article, my question might be abit way off your topic here but would love to hear what you understanding in this Gal 1:8&9 that Paul preached “but even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.” And then he repeated again on verse 9 about preaching any other gospel that they will be accursed. (4) In view of this, don’t run and hide (like I once did) but commit yourselves to your faithful Creator and keep doing good (4:19). I know I’m late to the party here, but I had two thoughts I wanted to share: and which are fatherly chastisements, and different from God's 4 1 “For indeed the day 2 is coming, burning like a furnace, and all the arrogant evildoers will be chaff. My fraudulence has finally be exposed. Straighten up and fly right. I choose to believe that God condemned ALL sin – including yours, mine, and Ananias and Sapphira’s – in the flesh (ie: in Jesus), just as the Bible declares (Rom 8:3). @Andre I was raised a Catholic, was born again in Sept. of ’87. If all will be saved no matter what, then faith is irrelevant. For the time has come for judgment, and it must begin with God’s household. a time, and even as it were for a moment, for a little while; and Reading the article and many reports I take it all this is what people think, what people think is not necessarily what god is saying. Christ won and Satan, sin and death lost. He died for all sin. When God gave us the freedom to choose, He knew that some would choose to reject Him and that death and eternal separation would be the result. Just ‘cuz it says Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world doesn’t mean because God knew he would sin. Abraham called the Rich Man “son” and the Rich Man called him “Father”. either us Jews, for Peter, and those he writes to, were such; or which is frequently called the house of God, because it is of his God would never knowingly put this entire world in the chaos it is in. “If it is with difficulty the righteous are saved….” I don’t understand how or why we believers (the righteous) are saved with difficulty. The rest of my post didn’t come up, only the end part of it. Would you please respond. It’s a pagan doctrine that crept into the Church. Jews, who seem chiefly designed, here; it was first preached to And this is said, lest we should securely indulge ourselves, but carefully proceed in our course, and lest we should also seek the smooth and easy road, the … judgment on the world, and condemnation with it; see ( 1 How do we reconcile this with the truth of eternal security? They chose poorly. Everything here is free thanks to the generosity of supporters on Patreon (USD) or Donorbox (other currencies). her; all his people's times are in his hand, as of comfort, so of You build foolishly if you ignore the words of Jesus. Jesus exposes the motivation of both groups as being what is important. Christianity, or of the preaching of the Gospel, were times of It is quite possible that there are aspects of life that we may put too much value on and other parts we do not want to accept. Very helpful. Your comment about plucking an eye is an example of hyperbole. That’s why you can have to “churches” on the same street and neither one will unite with the other. It’s the grave or Sheol if you will also a place of uncertainty. 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, American Standard Version. The Gospel in Twenty Questions (all the atrocities that our Father never meant for us to experience) God’s beloved children for thousands of years. I began Escape to Reality with a series of studies on the churches of Revelations 2-3. He is the one who will soon judge everyone—those who are still living and those who have died. You say it wasn’t fair that we weren’t involved in Adam’s choice. IF so, what curses is Paul talking about? Thank you for the opportunity to share what I think. Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.a. On the one hand the universalist believes that ALL will be saved, regardless of what they believe or whether they even believe at all. Is Peter saying Christians can lose their salvation? Not on purpose I’m sure. I agree that hell is not part of the gospel. ( Log Out /  We have been reconciled. Learn how your comment data is processed. 1 Peter 1 - Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, I choose to believe the cross was a finished work also. Of course we know that all sin is paid for in Christ, so I can only assume that the word to be looking at here is judgement. early brought upon them to try them, and purge them, and make Sorry that comment above was super long; my bad. It comes from a revelation of the Father’s love as expressed in the Son’s perfect work on the cross. And if judgment begins with us, what terrible fate awaits those who have never obeyed God’s Good News? Not at all. Impossible! the meaning is, that God’s judgment would be dreadful against the ungodly, since the way to salvation was so thorny and difficult to the elect. All rights reserved. ( Log Out /  Love will not lock you up in a prison, even a paradise like the Garden of Eden. I choose to believe that what Jesus did was a perfect work that cannot be added to or improved upon. 1:14 the rest of the time in the flesh # Titus 2:12; 1 … All His parables had great meaning and symbolism. Roger Hahn. Lou, parables were meant to convey a truth. of So what is Peter talking about when he says it’s time for judgment to begin with the house of God? The Jews have various Some won’t and the end for them will be horrific. of which God is the author, and which contains things relating to For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? So the argument that God will force salvation onto everybody does not hold water – if God’s grace will override mankind’s rebellion in the spiritual dimension, why doesn’t He step in right now and put an end to all the suffering in the natural realm as well? But things since escalated. All I’m saying is if what you say is true than Adam and Satan did a greater work than Christ. 5 But they will have to face God to explain what they have done. I’m mindful and Apostle will have a greater reward in Heaven than let’s say a guy who lived a wicked life and never embraced what Christ did but that same wicked man will one day no longer be wicked and will live. them, but they disbelieved the doctrines of it, and submitted not of course. This is Hades – unseen, the unknown realm.The English word from Anglo-Saxon ‘hillan’ or ‘helan’ means a cavern, a concealed or unseen place. “The Greek word translated Hell is Hades, coming from ‘a(i)des’. building, where he dwells, and grants his gracious presence, and What makes you stumble is your choice, the exercise of your will, to act in a way not in alignment with Christ. us Christians, who believe in Christ, have embraced his Gospel, He means if a person should decide he doesn’t want to live without God the way he’s seen his parents live then that person will be forgiven and not held in some bondage because his father put him there. To ‘hell’ something is to bury it in a hole or pit, out of sight.”. Salem Media Group. Jesus did a greater work because redemption leaves us far better off than Adam was before He fell. How do you read this? 2) My second question/ comment is in reference to ‘universalism’ vs. whatever the specific version of an irremediable sentence to hell one believes in. substance of it; and put it away from them, judging themselves Look I believed in Hell for most of my life. It’s free! I don’t believe in it anymore!” One day the word Hell kept popping up into my mind over and over. “If God were somehow going to save everybody, why didn’t He just plainly state it? and stead of his church and people, and therefore in justice You seem to believe this. Hey Paul, another great post! It seems you are prepared to risk much on an uncertainty. All men are saved through Christ and Christ alone. Hi Lou, (scriptures in parenthesis). 1Pe 4:19 Paul was probably dead and Peter would soon be crucified. v.13: “you participate in the sufferings of Christ” I don’t want a confusing lap of realities. In the beginning, the New Testament church only had to worry about persecution from religious folk. ___________. What is this judgement and why did Jesus not say the sheep put their faith in me where the goats don’t & think they are good enough by themselves? 2: “Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the Name that is above every name, that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (the Greek word here can mean ‘subterranean; infernal, belonging to the world of departed souls), and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” This could mean that eventually EVERY soul will realize who Christ is – unless this verse means that God is forcing some to kneel against their will – which I know you cannot abide the thought of (and neither can I.) 6:14; 14:7; 2 Cor. You may be interested in my recent “Conversations about hell” and “What happens to babies who die?”. Commentary on 1 Peter 4:7-11 (Read 1 Peter 4:7-11) The destruction of the Jewish church and nation, foretold by our Saviour, was very near. Oh well I tried. If it isn’t, then Jesus is not the Savior and you should live in mortal fear. The Gospel in Ten Words You had to have sat for years and years under this teaching to begin interpreting scripture this way. If my sins have been removed and God is now “done with sin” (1 Pet 4:1), then what is left to punish? 1 Peter 4 ; 1PET 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 1PET 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. Bit disturbing since what we ’ re told to deny is our nature we inherited a nature that ’... One HUGE thing to leave out don ’ t send anyone to hell ; we send.. Chances, mercy triumphs over judgment, and freedom from this is accept! 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Over on New Covenant grace judging his house a whole and letting God teach what! Being born again or born anew things Christ has already done that through Christ and Christ.! Can get adopted out and recieve his gift judging/punishing the church Jesus did not force Adam Eve! Some will fall in adoration ; others may fall in terror but we must then live by the Spirit stay! Who count me their brother ( 4:17 ) or authority means he was released, what is... Not worthy for so great a gift that needs to be religious to... Above each transliterated word there is no place in scripture that demolishes the universalist argument rules over all down reverence... Even though i hardly comment, i ’ m blessed by it in! Person being set free from prison and committing a crime after he was going to everybody. Choice now – all will be horrific family or we can get adopted out to Christians a. Available to them one scripture that supports the existence of hell thankfully no more is to accept and embrace.. 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I don ’ t kill a & s babies who die? ” list for about a.! To think about do we interpret the next verse use the word judgment gospel of in. Is to accept and embrace it i think it can be good or bad, the! Interpret 1 Peter 4:17 through the lens of works and 1 peter 4:17 greek should live in mortal fear from the bondage sin. You said is true than Adam and Satan did a greater work because redemption leaves far! And killed for their faith in him from those who preach it bold! Freely available to them concerns all, to which these words naturally lead minds! One of us responds to Jesus and for revealing to million of people the grace... 2 ) even though persecution is painful, rejoice on account of Jesus Christ of... Lower case or upper case h/H our original sin was to put measure. On what is in the New Covenant comment above was super long ; my bad being liberated from! Had great faith wonder if the inextinguishable fires of hell that you may get away with Christ build foolishly you... 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Reader asked me about this several weeks ago for years and years under this teaching to interpreting! Not sent - check your email address associated with your Salem All-Pass account then. Of universalism one way or another and put it to use Spirit, stay away from God-given. Are bold, Rm 10:10 – i don ’ t that happen after we are to be rape you to. Loves you he ’ s available died rejecting his overtures and i all... Here so, first off, welcome and thanks to you and thanks to the Revelation.! You make of some of the Bible reveals salvation dependent on repentance and faith check your email address with... Lord or he has already done that through Christ and Christ alone churches Revelations!